Lawton Politics

Good for Lawton.

I doubt there's a specific law in Lawton against bars and nightclubs being open on Sunday. Many are just closed since most people have to go back to work on Monday. Some bars are open for business on Sunday in Lawton if sporting events are being broadcast on TV, such as NFL games, etc.

The area where I don't think Lawton is sensible on its drinking laws is the way new churches are strategically placed. Bars cannot operate within a certain distance of a church. If a church builds up near an existing bar or night club and ABLE manages to get that bar busted out of its liquor license then it will never re-open.

Downtown Lawton largely doesn't allow bars and night clubs at all -which partly explains why that area of town is plain dead after sunset. Areas in the downtown redevelopment plan must allow businesses like night clubs and taverns to open. The main requirement I ask is that such establishments actually have some quality to them rather than be just another cheap, average, trashy bar.

Speaking of bars, is Lawton more sensible about local drinking and alcohol laws than Stillwater?  In Stillwater bars can't open on Sunday.  One excuse why is because the police department isn't budgeded to patrol the bars on Sundays.  In Stillwater and county liquor stores aren't allowed to be open on Sunday.  Also no public drinking is allowed in the street or in parks.  The college students failed to turn out to keep that law from going back on the books like they had done once before back when the minimum age for drinking was 18.

Don't forget one of Lawton oldest locally owned restaurants...is Salas Mexican Restaurant....originated across from Wayne's Drive Inn in the mid 50's...at that time it was called Little Mexico...but had to move when that area was widened for Sheridan Road

By the way...sorry for al the misspellings...in last reply.....  no glasses.....

Mike's Sports Grill still seems to be holding its own with Buffalo Wild Wings in town. Gert's Pub and Grub (formerly Gertlestone's) is a good alternative. Great variety of beers and the food is actually pretty good.

Here's a few other local favorites:

Burgess Grill - 617 SW "C" Avenue
They have really good hamburgers and other items on the menu. Located downtown.

Dry Beaver - E of Lawton, off OK-7 on 135th ST/Woodlawn
I've eaten some good steaks there. It's not real easy to find. Basically you turn south off OK-7 on the last road before you get to Pumpkin Center and OK-65.

Fisherman's Cove - Medicine Park (2 Mi. W of I-44 on OK-49)
I've eaten at Fisherman's Cove lots of times. This place and Red Lobster are only two decent seafood places in town. You can order steaks, ribs and other stuff there. They have a good party room upstairs. Our company has held its annual Christmas Party there a few times.

The Junction - 1707 NW Sheridan
Arguably the best Korean take out in town.

The Meers Store - OK-115 & Meers Porter Hill Rd
It's mainly a tourist attraction. The exterior looks pretty cruddy. But I still love eating a burger there now and then.

I haven't visited Los Margaritas yet, but have heard rumors they serve pretty good Tex/Mex food there. I've been wishing On the Border would open a restaurant in Lawton. Los Margaritas is located in what used to be Red Lion Inn (and formerly Holiday Inn), across the street from Gerts and almost next door to Red Lobster. The restaurant operators have dressed up the exterior a bit and even installed some outdoor patio seating.

There is a restaurant that I have recently fallen in love with called The Back Porch.  It is located downtown across the street from the cable company.  They serve home-cooked southern food such as country fried gravy, pinto beans, great salads, burgers and pork in a cafe setting.  They aren't open for diner though, only breakfast and lunch and they are closed on Sun and I think also Mon.

I know Lawton has Olive Garden, Red Lobster, Chili's, Applebee's, Outback, Garfield's, Buffalo Wild Wings, IHOP, and so on, but I was wondering if Lawton had any great local restaurants that were worth writing home about? When I'm down, me and my dad, a retired cop, sometimes eat at Mike's, or sometimes go to Bianco's pizza downtown, but other than that, I don't know any other great local digs. I know that there's oriental places on every street corner, but I was wondering about like a good old-fashioned, All-American kind of place that wouldn't be too bad to bring the family to, for a reunion we're planning.

Whatever it is that you were taking pics of looks really good to me. I too was surprised by the overhead view, it does look very strip mallish. I completely echo what you expected to see. Personally I really like what's on the west side of 2nd, much better than what's on the east side of 2nd, which gives me some pause. I really was pleasantly surprised on the other hand by the concept illustrations, which shows that the concept that they're going for is quite good. I think that in the overhead concept, the stuff along the spine of the project, 2nd Street, might be a little dwarfed in comparison. What I like is that the existing street grid is not altered. Columbia goes through, and the projects connects well to the surrounding neighborhood. The project is less pedestrian-oriented than I expected, although I can understand that there could be issues if not enough concessions are made for the automobile. I also expected there to be development across Gore as well. I think that so far major kudos go out for how 2nd Street is being landscaped, the way development faces it, and how pedestrian-friendly 2nd Street is going to be. I doubt that the site is going to be large enough to be able to break up the gaping parking lot at all. I don't think that there's any way that moving any of it to the back would work, which is probably what everyone behind it would prefer, as well. So we're stuck with it in the front.

The renderings look like a decent starting point. Without having any actual key anchor tenants named it's difficult for anyone to flesh out any "pads" to a more specific nature.

The properties in the aerial view of the site plan seem to be arranged in a more conventional way than I expected. I imagined a greater number of thoroughfares and smaller properties breaking up the big parking lots between the large stores facing 2nd street. Overhead, it looks a lot like a standard strip mall to me, but with more trees and green work. Surely the finished project will look different.

It's obvious they used the satellite view of Lawton from Google Earth. Too bad Lawton is still stuck with an outdated, low resolution view otherwise the background for the site plan would look better.

The loose drawings give a slightly better idea of the intended theme, but I'm sure that's going to be subject to change somewhat as specific tenants get on board. They all have different space needs, parking requirements. Some have specific color schemes they incorporate into the building. All are going to need signs of some type -I just hope there's a covenant of sorts to keep that aspect from looking cheap or cheesy.

I attached some pictures from a couple different places in Rogers, AR. The small shopping center across from the John Q. Hammons convention center and Embassy Suites is an actual mixed use retail/living "lifestyle" development. The Pinnacle Hills shopping center is an open air shopping mall dressed up to look like a lifestyle center, but I don't think there's any living spaces there.

I agree with your assessment except for clothes which I usually just go to the mall for. For most people the main strength of Target is its home accessories and generally crap that nobody really needs. Target is known for having a lot of stylish stuff real cheap like picture frames, chairs, bean bags, candles, bath towels, wall hangings, etc..

I hope the 3rd Wal-Mart doesn't happen either. Honestly, I don't think it will. Two Wal-Mart SuperCenters and a Sam's Club is enough for a 100,000 metro population. I think Lawton would have to gain another 50,000 people before the folks in Bentonville could honestly justify building a 3rd location in the area.

Target has a far better brand image than Wal-Mart. And its store fronts look better (particularly the newer Super Target locations). For me that's where the excitement ends. The store interiors don't knock me out at all. They actually feel a bit sterile and empty. In the end, the products the store carries, as well as the price points, are what counts. Not the brand name.

Sometimes Target has some great deals. I remember buying the PC version of Quake 4 for just $40 when it was released a couple years ago ($15 less than the normal price). They had TV series DVD box sets of 24 for only $19.99. Wal-Mart was selling them for $30. OTOH, Target has sucked when it comes to competing on other electronics items like movies on Blu-ray Disc. Wal-Mart hasn't been completely great with Blu-ray either, but at least has been trying to match some of the great deals found at Amazon.com.

I think the main strength of Target is its clothing section, particularly for women and children. Wal-Mart just hasn't done very well in that category.

No, I've never been to Castle Rock, Colorado, but I'm sure it is no comparison to the beautiful new-urbanist shopping projects going up in the Denver City Limits, or Denver's closer-in suburbs. Look, I'll be the first to admit, as an architecture major, that strip malls don't have to be hideous. They can in fact be quite nice, but even the lifestyle centers out in the suburbs are just so much nicer.

A lifestyle center in Huntersville, NC (just ouside Charlotte)


A strip mall project near Columbia, SC

Ever been to Castle Rock, Colorado? They have a pretty luxurious looking outlet mall there. Anyone who thinks that shopping center looks ugly is either an idiot or just hates all stores and commerce in general.

Wait, where's the recycling center?

I tried to find one for my dad last month and went all over the trashy area between Lee and the Airport and couldn't find one that was open. Though there are several different types of recycling centers in that area.. most of the morons that work in those places require you to throw something at them in order to get their attention so it just wasn't worth it.

Quote from: Randy on 07/02/08, 05:41Correct, Across the the street from Braum's on east Gore

I believe that the manager has been talking to developers concerning a downtown Hotel/Convention Center.  That process will grind to a halt if a couple council members get their way and demand to be briefed on every meeting the manager has with potential developers.

This last "fact finding" trip some members of the council took in a developers jet seems to have wet the appetite for being wined and dined. Exactly why council should not be involved in pre-contract "negotiations".

If that is what they want then they need to change the charter and our form of government.

This is where the wheels fall off.

It is never going to change until certain elements are removed. I have tried for over ten years and yes we have made some headway toward POSITIVE, proactive, modern, accountable and friendly government but it is still like banging your head against a wall.

When you have elected officials who disrupt meeting and want to compare todays cost with costs in the 60's and even further back and want to know why project bids are inflated you can't gain much traction. These would be the same individuals who's management philosophy is "Let's take care of today and let someone else take care of tomorrow".

This is of course my personal opinion for which I am sure I will be staunchly repremended......

Randy

It did seem awful strange that the city council members itself were being major disruptions.

Quotea classy outlet mall
Really?

Penn Square is great.. nothing in Lawton or Stillwater is going to come close, but that's fine.

Quote from: Bobby H on 07/02/08, 21:52QuoteThere is a frenzy on the part of the citizenry for Target I don't understand it but it is there.
It's just brand worship. Not much else. Lawton finally got its Olive Garden and a couple Starbucks locations (hopefully they're not among the 600 stores Starbucks plans to close). I think it was a bigger deal getting Home Depot and Lowes. Target is another major brand people in Lawton have been wanting for years.

Target does carry some nice things, and it can be a good alternative to Wal-Mart. But I'll be more excited about something like Best Buy or Petsmart.

Target is a lot classier than Wal-Mart, and people in Lawton are very weary of the spurious "3rd Wal-Mart" rumor.

Yes, it does. There's even a collection center within a stone's throw of city hall. Despite that fact, a lot of the old farts just piss and moan about having to organize their garbage. Quite frankly, I really don't have any sympathy for them. If forced recycling is good enough for the rest of the developed world then it is good enough for Lawton. The old farts just need to get with the program already.

The last time I was in Lawton so many of the buildings look dull and weather beatened.  You all probably need to paint the town as bad or worse than get new stores.  Oh, well, I've also been to Altus and it look even worse than Lawton in being weather worned.